regshoe: A grey heron in flight over water (Heron)
regshoe ([personal profile] regshoe) wrote2021-11-27 05:31 pm

Flight of the Heron read-along: Part IV chapters 1-2

Lots of drama in this week's chapters...!

Next week we'll continue with Part IV chapters 3 and 4.
cahn: (Default)

[personal profile] cahn 2021-11-27 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
A "fit of philanthropy," eh? Ha!

But oh noooooo it is even as I foresaw (well, I mean, it was foreshadowed like whoa, of course) and oh noooooo poor Keith (you should have toooooold him Keith!) and I hope Ewen continues to have faith in him and doesn't really think that Keith was trying to finagle information out of him :((((((

(Also awww Lt Paton, he's still the best and I adore how he is all "I'm totally sick and also I have to go write a letter, um, yeah, right this minute it's super urgent" when he thinks Keith is perfidious)

But also Keith, man, I know you're upset but you're going nowhere good with this! Ahhhhh! (For the first time I'm going to be reading ahead -- I make myself write the comment before reading further, but I'm writing the comment mid-week and plunging ahead because omg! Keith!)

[Before posting -- I did read the two chapters after, so I'm a week ahead now! -- and V thrff V qvqa'g trg Rjra abg oryvrivat gung Xrvgu unq orgenlrq uvz, ohg ng yrnfg ur oryvrirq Xrvgu jura ur rkcynvarq uvzfrys naq qvqa'g xrrc guvaxvat gung, naq Ybpuvry unfa'g orra gnxra rvgure, fb Rjra qvqa'g orgenl uvz, jurj! <3 ]
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-27 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Jnvg, gung npghnyyl JNF Ynpuyna? Guvf er-ernq, vg bppheerq gb zr gung vg zvtug or, ohg gura jura Xrvgu ybbxrq ng uvz evtug va gur snpr naq gur nffnvynag'f rlrf jrer bcra naq svkrq naq fgnevat, V svtherq vg pbhyqa'g or ohg vg jbhyq unir orra tbbq vs vg jnf.

Ohg abj er-ernqvat gur raq ntnva, V frr jr'er gbyq gung Ynpuyna znqr na nggrzcg ng Ynxr Gness, fb V fhccbfr vg jnf Ynpuyna nsgre nyy. Uhu. V fhccbfr guvf vyyhfgengrf ubj yhpxl Rjra jnf onpx ng gur fuvryvat gung ur'q unq n funir, vs guvf vf ubj onq Xrvgu vf ng erpbtavfvat orneqrq crbcyr...

In other news, Keith continues to be phenomenally bad at identifying his feelings. He needs a set of those cards with various expressions on it that they use to teach little kids to name their feelings.

I wonder how his initial plan for getting Cumberland to personally intervene would have worked out. Do we believe that Keith "I Got Personal Feelings All Over My Debt of Honour" Windham would have been able to keep his cool that long?
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)

[personal profile] hyarrowen 2021-11-28 12:10 am (UTC)(link)
wrt to your ROT'd paras - it never occurred to me that Keith would recognise the assailant. I'm dreadfully bad at faces myself. And good as Broster is at describing landscapes, ducks, etc, she does have characters recognising each other by voice rather than appearance a couple of times that I can remember. eg Keith suddenly realising who Ewen is in Edinburgh, and someone has a similar experience in GitN. I wonder if she was slightly face-blind?
Edited (removed spoiler omg hope I was fast enough) 2021-11-28 00:34 (UTC)
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)

[personal profile] hyarrowen 2021-11-28 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
Others will do more justice to Keith's actions and motives than I possibly can. But I would like to say how much I like the little details here - Lt Paton producing a couple of pails to sit on (something from Broster's own wartime experience, I don't doubt.) And the poor soldiers being turned out of their sleeping-quarters so the officers can talk in comfort! Hmpf!
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 12:35 am (UTC)(link)
I can't speak to Broster herself, but now that you point it out, I would agree that the hypothesis that Keith is at least a bit face-blind is supported by the text!

(omg, what must it be like to be faceblind in the military, when everyone is in identical uniform all the time?)
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)

[personal profile] hyarrowen 2021-11-28 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
I got dreadfully confused when watching Band of Brothers. Who is this young, white, dark-haired, uniformed fellow with an American accent who's wearing an enormous helmet? I really had no idea most of the time...
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 04:03 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, my wife is a bit face-blind, and can struggle with TV. A couple of shows (such as The Terror) I've not bothered suggesting for just that reason: a whole cast of medium-build bearded dark-haired white men in very similar uniforms.
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 02:41 pm (UTC)(link)
And it's raining all that time, too! Poor soldiers. : (
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Very satisfying chapters! And sets up so well for the even more satisfying chapters that come next. First off, I really like the weather descriptions--the wind and rain feel so real.

And Keith may consider himself a cynic, but I really don't think he actually is one. Even from the start, he clearly has principles that a true cynic would not have (well, depending on how you interpret the word). He has managed to create a distance to his actual feelings, and reasserts that distance after leaving Ewen in the hut, perhaps because somehow he doesn't consider that to be part of his real life, the life he's supposed to have as a military professional? But it doesn't take much for his feelings to break through again... And as I've noted before, this sort of thing is just fannish catnip to me. That scene with Keith in front of Loudoun, just throwing everything to the wind. ♥

I don't know what to make of Captain Greening's feminine looks/manner? It makes me a little uncomfortable, I guess, that the only man we see who is described this way is a villain. Then again, the other villains are all manly men.

In other news, I've written up some of my recent research reading about female Jacobites here. Enjoy!
killclaudio: Benedick is holding Beatrice back while she struggles with him, on an orange background with crossed swords. (Default)

[personal profile] killclaudio 2021-11-28 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh nooo, poor Keith! The guy just can't catch a break. I love that the narrative has been at such pains to present him as a man who has nothing but his career, with a broken engagement behind him and a distant relationship with his mother. It makes the sight of him throwing it all over for his relationship with Ewen that much more affecting.

And god, this was a tragic misunderstanding to rival any romance novel. Broster is really good at constructing situations for maximum drama while still being totally believable, and the result is so much fun. When I first saw that the title of the section is 'Your debtor, Ewen Cameron', I thought it was going to be all about Ewen being grateful to Keith for saving his life, so the actual plot was a surprise, lol. But I guess that reconciliation is coming up (eventually), and I'm looking forward to it.

Two more meetings left, right? I'm worried about how it's going to end, what with the dire tones of the prophesy, and I was also curious about the attempted assassination at the start of the chapter. Broster wouldn't shove that in for no reason, so it's going to come back to bite Keith eventually. But he couldn't get in trouble for killing a man who was about to stab him? I'm biting my nails!
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're right that "cynic" is a deliberate cover for and distancing from his actual feelings (which are very deep and painful), rather than any philosophical attitude he feels naturally. I'd suggest his so-called cynicism goes hand-in-hand with his continual inability to identify his feelings: this is a man who's been training himself for years upon years to not credit or notice any feeling beyond irritation.

Because it is very clear that this man feels things very deeply: he would not have taken his prior rejections so hard as to reject all friendships, otherwise. And of course there's all the everything with Ewen. The way Keith just loses his shit all over Loudoun... wow.

(And that driving need to get back to Ewen to explain himself! So that Ewen not think poorly of him! Or think himself betrayed!)

I'm uncomfortable with you re all these "womanish" descriptions of Greening. :-/

And yay, thank you for more historical write-up!
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Gur Pnzreba gnegna jnf n avpr vebavp gbhpu. Xrvgu unf graqre srryvatf sbe nalbar jrnevat vg, orpnhfr vg erzvaqf uvz bs Rjra. Jurernf gur yblnygvrf flzobyvmrq ol gung gnegna ner RKNPGYL jul guvf zna nggrzcgrq gb nffnffvangr uvz!
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha, that is very true!
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't wonder that you kept going, reading it for the first time! : )
hedgebird: (Default)

[personal profile] hedgebird 2021-11-28 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I've caught up again!

Oh Keith. Antagonizing half of Fort Augustus is not the best plan he's ever had, lol.
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
And yet it is a GLORIOUS plan, and we commend him for his commitment to it!
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee. I doubt it's a plan so much as a blaze of indignation and feeling. : )
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd suggest his so-called cynicism goes hand-in-hand with his continual inability to identify his feelings: this is a man who's been training himself for years upon years to not credit or notice any feeling beyond irritation.

Yes! La la la, feelings, what do you mean, feelings? Nothing to see here, move on!

And, as you say, why reject love so hard if he truly didn't care?
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-11-28 07:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I started wondering what Laurent looks like, but couldn't find a good description of him! As for Aymar, the words "sweet" and "charm" are used, but then his looks are "without the weakness which sometimes accompanies the latter quality in a man".
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-11-28 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It is a GLORIOUS blaze of indignation and feeling, and we commend him for his commitment to it!
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)

[personal profile] hyarrowen 2021-11-28 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Oof. So true.
tgarnsl: profile of an eighteenth century woman (Default)

[personal profile] tgarnsl 2021-11-29 05:46 am (UTC)(link)
Keith is a cynic, but it’s clear that some part of him very much doesn’t want to be. He’s been hurt time and again by other people, but there’s this child-like need to believe that people are good, and even though he tries to wall himself off from others that need is still there, something I think is very clearly the aftereffects of an emotionally neglected childhood (as Gleam in the North makes clear). It’s no wonder he likes Ewen, who is so dependable in his affection, and why he’s so distressed to think that Ewen feels betrayed by him. I love these chapters because we really see Keith unravel a bit, and start to prioritise other things than military ambition. It’s a good look for him.

I have more thoughts, but alas will have to type them up tomorrow!
tgarnsl: profile of an eighteenth century woman (Default)

[personal profile] tgarnsl 2021-11-29 05:52 am (UTC)(link)
As someone who is reasonably face blind, I can never get into any media where there are a bunch of similar looking people in uniforms. The Terror is a good show but I can recognise like three people on it.

I wholeheartedly support the notion that Keith is face blind, however, and am now amused/horrified at the thought of him not recognising Ewen at the shieling until it was too late.
osprey_archer: (Default)

[personal profile] osprey_archer 2021-11-29 04:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I'M GLAD IT WASN'T JUST ME. I watched it with my brother and had to ask him to identify every character almost every episode, and by the end I could STILL only reliably identify three of them. And one of them was the one guy who had lighter hair, of course.
osprey_archer: (Default)

[personal profile] osprey_archer 2021-11-29 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
The soldiers being turned out of their sleeping-quarters so the officers can talk ALSO seems like something out of Broster's wartime experiences. Peak officer behavior!
osprey_archer: (Default)

[personal profile] osprey_archer 2021-11-29 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
If I've learned one thing from books it's that you should ALWAYS tell people when you've done something that might seem perfidious if they learn it from another source, because they WILL learn it from another source, who will probably present it in the most perfidious light possible!

I hope Lt Paton gets transferred away from Guthrie's unit soon, because having to deal with that man on a daily basis must be like sandpaper to his soul. If he can't get away it may wear him down till he truly is as cynical as Keith tries to be!
friendofthejabberwock: two screencaps: Data and Spock holding cats (Default)

[personal profile] friendofthejabberwock 2021-11-30 12:26 am (UTC)(link)
Keith's cynicism vs. his optimism is really interesting. It's like he wants to be the cynic, and that's what his experience has mostly shown him, but he still can't shake the underlying assumption of good intentions. It seems like when he has time to think he's more likely to be cynical, but when he's all in a flurry about something he reverts back to thinking that People Are Well-Behaved, and then after a certain point he doesn't really care at all (because too passionately indignant.)

The exception that I can think of to the above, of course, would be when he was first captured by Ewen, but in that case he had... rather strong preconceptions, lol!

I tend to be very sensitive to secondhand embarrassment, and so oh god that whole conversation with Paton. Kudos to Broster for making me really care about her characters, though! And I do wish all the best for Paton (and hopefully an imminent transfer away from Guthrie. Neither of them deserve the other.)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-12-03 01:36 am (UTC)(link)
Re his plan to petition Cumberland for Keith's freedom, I ran across this in a history of Culloden that I'm reading (Trevor Royle, Culloden: Scotland's Last Battle and the Forging of the British Empire):

Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Whiteford was one of the more chivalrous and caring officers in Cumberland's army... He distinguished himself as a volunteer at Prestonpans, where he gallantly refused to abandon his position with the artillery after his gunners had fled, and was saved from summary execution by Alexander Stewart of Invernahyle, a Jacobite officer in the Appin Regiment. In the aftermath of Culloden Whitefoord repaid the debt by using his influence with Cumberland to save the life of Stewart of Invernahyle and his family.

(It then goes on to say that Walter Scott learned of the incident, and Whitefoord became the basis of Colonel Talbot in Waverley.)

Anyway, maybe Keith's plan to ask for Cumberland's intervention was better than we're giving him credit for?
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-12-03 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah yes, I recognize that story from Duffy. In general a lot of people were trying to save Jacobites by using the patronage system and appealing to influential Whigs that they had some connection to, which in many cases was successful. So yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable for Keith to expect to be able to save Ewen that way.

Heee, I'm glad to see you're getting sucked into research reading. *g*
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-12-03 03:34 pm (UTC)(link)
There was also a page or so in here about Loudoun, asserting that he was notably better than most of the government officers about treating surrendered Jacobites with decency. I note, too, that Loudoun was a Campbell, and thus surmise -- connecting the dots with something I think you said elsewhere -- that he was one of the Campbells in particular that Jacobites would insist on surrendering to, if they were going to surrender at all.

Which makes me wonder if Keith might have had a chance of success with Loudoun, had he 1) kept his cool, and 2) had this interview on his first pass through the fort.
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)

[personal profile] luzula 2021-12-03 04:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, Loudoun was a pretty decent guy, from what I've read! I see why Broster apologized for slandering him...but hey, the plot needed to go where it needed to go. : D

Albemarle, who is seen sympathetically in FotH because he likes Keith (which he mostly does because he has the hots for Lady Stowe), was actually much worse.

Let's see if I can dig up a quote by Albemarle...okay, here we go: I [...] always feared from the bad inclination of the people in most of the northern counties and from their stubborn, inveterate disposition of mind, nothing could effect it but laying the whole country waste and ashes, and removing all the inhabitants (excepting a few) out of the kingdom.
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)

[personal profile] sanguinity 2021-12-07 05:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Something to keep in mind when we see Albemarle. I wish I could say that is the only quote like that I've read from the government officers, but sadly, it's very much not. :-/
tgarnsl: profile of an eighteenth century woman (Default)

[personal profile] tgarnsl 2021-12-09 05:50 am (UTC)(link)
Re: Greening — I was chatting about this last week with [personal profile] sanguinity and I feel that Keith going out of his way to denigrate Greening on his appearance and mannerisms very interesting, as I think it speaks to his perceptions of his own masculinity in that moment. His reaction to Ewen's imprisonment was very emotional and in many ways irrational; he has thrown over his military duty, the one thing he is bound to, in favour of riding through a storm to his beloved former enemy — a reaction that could quite misogynistically be referred to as "womanish" behaviour. While his behaviour is not out of the realm for an 18th century man (good god they could be dramatic), in the hypermasculine world of the army I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly feels very insecure over his own masculinity in that moment. Asserting himself as a man over Greening might make him feel more secure about himself, and more sure in his conviction that what he did was the sensible, rational thing to do. It is also possible to read that he is growing indirectly aware of his attraction to Ewen, something that might also threaten his masculinity and therefore his sense of self.

There's also the less interesting interpretation which is that Broster is a woman of the late 19th century, but I don't particularly care for that interpretation.