regshoe: Close-up of a grey heron, its beak open as if laughing (Heron 2)
[personal profile] regshoe
I have just finished reading a Mary Renault novel and feel, predictably, absolutely awful about it. Time to distract myself with some Jacobites!

Next week we'll finish Part I with chapters 5 and 6.

Date: Oct. 9th, 2021 08:11 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
His smile went up a little at the corner. A sparkle came into Ewen Cameron’s eyes.

Awww, yes, that bit is lovely. <3

I rather like Alison's description of Prince Charles as 'the fairy prince' (now there's an AU—Charles as John Uskglass conquering Scotland and England with his fairy army...!

Oh, hmm, that is an interesting AU possibility...

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 04:05 am (UTC)
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)
From: [personal profile] hyarrowen
I too love the bit where Keith and Ewen smile at each other. I think Keith challenges Ewen in a way that he's not used to; his foster-brothers and tenants are utterly devoted to him, Aunt Margaret and the rest of the family love him dearly and look after him and he's close to the centre of their world. Keith is an annoyance and unpredictable and he's all prickles - and he's an equal in a way that the others are not.

I like the adroit way that DKB changes POVs - not something you see much of in fanfic but it happens very naturally here. Also her long, long sentences. Radio was just getting going when FotH was published and there were far fewer sources of entertainment than even ten years later.

The threads have always confused me too. Prisoner and captor, perhaps, turn and turn about? Or in the sense of spun threads that you twist together to get a stronger, single yarn? Baffled.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 09:21 am (UTC)
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)
From: [personal profile] hyarrowen
It's such a pity we can't ask her! Everyone seems both confused and intrigued by it. Maybe she left it quite deliberately ambiguous, a la Balrog wings.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 10:34 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
I think Keith challenges Ewen in a way that he's not used to; his foster-brothers and tenants are utterly devoted to him, Aunt Margaret and the rest of the family love him dearly and look after him and he's close to the centre of their world. Keith is an annoyance and unpredictable and he's all prickles - and he's an equal in a way that the others are not.

Yes! How insightful--I do think you're right.

Date: Oct. 13th, 2021 04:17 am (UTC)
cahn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cahn
- and he's an equal in a way that the others are not.

Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense! I can see how that would be really attractive to Ewen :D

Date: Oct. 14th, 2021 03:34 am (UTC)
impala_chick: (Default)
From: [personal profile] impala_chick
to have lived alongside Angus all his life and been witness to multiple predictions which have 'fulfilled themselves in an extraordinary way' and still not believe in the second sight.
Yes, I kept thinking Angus must have said something that never came true.

The scene where Keith and Ewen walk down towards the loch together after the Lachlan disaster is just lovely.
I agree!!

Date: Oct. 9th, 2021 08:03 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
Ha, Keith is grouchy again in the beginning of chapter 3! I continue to love his back-and-forth interplay with Ewen in these chapters--outrage over being attacked at Slochd nan Eun, then this turns to generous forgiveness when he sees Ewen's reaction. And the kilt comment, heh! He keeps noticing that kilt, too.

But one of my favorite lines is when he resolves not to tease Ewen anymore, and the omniscient narrator notes "But he was not to keep this resolution." Great use of omniscient narrator! And indeed by the end of the chapter he's back to teasing Ewen...it seems he can't help it. *g*

I appreciate seeing more of Aunt Margaret's sense of humor, and her and Alison interacting. I do wonder what on earth that comment about Ewen keeping secrets from her is about? From a writing POV, maybe it's just to bring the conversation around so that Alison can say that line about how she might never be a wife at all? I can't think of any in-universe reason for it...

At this point it's almost like Alison is paying more attention to Keith, his character, and motivations than Ewen is. Of course, Ewen is very busy. I do like his comment about how he can't quite make Keith out. No wonder, with how confused Keith himself is by his reactions to Ewen!

In other news, you might enjoy this write-up I did of the '45 and its historical background for a bunch of 18th century history nerds.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 02:04 am (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
Thank you for the link to that write-up! I've had nothing in the way of formal education about this period, and very little in the way of cultural osmosis, either, so I'm very glad of your walking us through it, thank you.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 10:33 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
Glad it was helpful! : D

Date: Oct. 9th, 2021 09:42 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
First time read, so I don't know what's coming, but the bit where Ewen assumes Lachlan couldn't possibly have harmed the heron -- because Ewen said not to! -- thereby stubbornly disregarding the BLATANT fact that mere hours beforehand Lachlan had threatened Keith's life after being explicitly told not to...

I can't help but think that this is foreshadowing for some coming major betrayal from Lachlan. One almost certainly made to protect Ewen, if I were to guess, but one which Ewen would strenuously object to.


And like others, I laughed to see Keith admiring Ewen in a kilt -- and perhaps swooned a little at:

“Captain Windham, are you hurt? God forgive me, what have they been doing? Tied!” And in a moment he had snatched a little knife out of his stocking and was cutting Keith’s bonds. “Oh, why did I let you out of my sight! For God’s sake tell me that you are not injured!”

...because I will always be a sucker for a frantic "say you're not hurt!" Even when they've only known each other for less than a day.

Date: Oct. 9th, 2021 10:41 pm (UTC)
osprey_archer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] osprey_archer
Ewen's "say you're not hurt!" is GREAT here, especially given how short a time they've known each other. Of course some of it is just that he's protective of his honor as a host (can't have Captain Windham getting hurt while he's a guest in Ewen's house!), but the intensity of it feels personal.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 10:33 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
I think it feels personal because he respects Keith and can tell that he's an honourable and admirable man, even if there are no stronger feelings yet! With someone he didn't respect much, he would still care for the sake of his own honour, but it wouldn't be as intense in front of Keith.

We see plenty of dishonourable Hanoverian officers later, so really, Ewen was lucky to capture Keith and not someone else.

Date: Oct. 24th, 2021 04:17 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
Belatedly coming back to say that I have raced through the remainder of the novel at a weekend, and V unir arire orra fb qvfznlrq gb or evtug! *funxrf svfg ng zlfrys naq Oebfgre naq gur Sngrf*


Oh, and also the whole bit about the Redcoats not being able to SEE what is happening on the High Bridge, because of angles and treecover and everything? Gung'f n znfgreshy ovg bs frggvat hc n snpg gung jvyy or nofbyhgryl pevgvpny jnl njnl ng gur bgure raq bs gur abiry...

Date: Oct. 24th, 2021 10:19 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
I just gave my wife a summary of zl cerqvpgvba naq vgf shysvyyzrag, naq fur fubbx ure urnq fnqyl. "Arire guvax lbh unir lbhe fvoyvat haqre lbhe guhzo," dhbgu fur. Truly, wisdom for the ages!

Date: Oct. 30th, 2021 09:07 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
Oh, you finished it already! Well, I hope you'll stick with the readalong anyway, and give us your impressions...

Naq V'z gehyl fbeel nobhg gur urnegoernxvat raqvat! Ohg, nf ertfubr fnlf, gung vf jung svkvg svp vf sbe, naq V guvax jr'ir sbhaq fbzr tbbq jnlf nebhaq vg. : )

Huh, that's an intriguing observation about High Bridge.

Date: Oct. 31st, 2021 12:38 am (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
I blew through it last weekend in tandem with a friend; she and I were sending each other quotes all weekend. But yes, I do intend to continue with the readalong; I look forward to a more leisurely read-through, and look forward to seeing all the things Broster set up along the way that I didn't notice on the first pass. I might be late joining in on this week's installment because I started at the beginning again last night, but I trust I'll catch up again shortly.

Naq lrf, svk-vg svp! Nygubhtu V svaq ab snhyg jvgu gur raqvat nf fur jebgr vg -- fbzrgvzrf bar eryvfurf gur urnegnpur bs n ornhgvshyyl jevggra gentrql.

Date: Oct. 31st, 2021 10:29 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
V frr jung lbh zrna nobhg nccerpvngvat gur urnegnpur bs gur gentvp raq va vgfrys! V'ir pregnvayl jevggra svp qvttvat vagb gung, gbb--ohg vg'f avpr gb or noyr gb frr vg nf bayl bar bs gur cbffvoyr bhgpbzrf. : )

Date: Oct. 31st, 2021 04:21 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
Absolutely!

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 10:28 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
I think it's not the foster-father question, but the mention of the heron which Keith made just prior to that! He doesn't want to explain the prophecy to Keith--or at least that's how I always read it.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 04:41 pm (UTC)
tei: Rabbit from the Garden of Earthly Delights (Default)
From: [personal profile] tei
“He was wearing the kilt to-day, and for the first time Keith Windham thought that there was something to be said for that article of attire— at least on a man of his proportions.” o.O SUBTLE.

The entire incident with Keith nearly being drowned made me very curious about… the cultural context for this thing of “I am keeping a prisoner in my house, family, please be nice to him.” Is this… a Done Thing? Why is Keith here? I’m assuming that killing him outright would have been too agressive for the stage of the war they were in…? But then, Keith’s regiment certainly didn’t seem to have any doubts that the Highlanders would kill them if they tried to cross the bridge, back when they thought there were enough of them to actually do so.

The tension between the prophecy aspect of the narrative and the resistance to it is very interesting!

Date: Oct. 11th, 2021 12:18 am (UTC)
tei: Rabbit from the Garden of Earthly Delights (Default)
From: [personal profile] tei
Ooh. That makes a lot more sense, if this was a kind of… regimented type of agreement! Also explains the modern usage of the word “parole,” I suppose.

Date: Oct. 11th, 2021 12:27 am (UTC)
ethelmay: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ethelmay
The business about "parole" kept reminding me of Antonia Forest's The Thuggery Affair: "But Jukie stiffened: to Patrick's astonishment he looked genuinely insulted. 'You weren't listening, noddy-boy. I said parole.' " In other words, he had really promised and it was a matter of honor.

Date: Oct. 11th, 2021 01:05 am (UTC)
owl: Stylized barn owl (Default)
From: [personal profile] owl
And we know AF was familiar with Broster; the twins read TFotH!

Date: Oct. 13th, 2021 04:22 am (UTC)
cahn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cahn
Ohhhh, I hadn't realized that! (Well, I wouldn't have recognized the name when I first read the Marlowe books...)

Date: Oct. 14th, 2021 03:42 am (UTC)
impala_chick: (JatP || Reggie & Luke)
From: [personal profile] impala_chick
Thanks for this! Now I can see the connection to the word "parole" in modern times.

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 05:17 pm (UTC)
friendofthejabberwock: two screencaps: Data and Spock holding cats (Default)
From: [personal profile] friendofthejabberwock
My reaction to these couple of chapters has mostly consisted of continuing to love Keith's narration. The irritation, the snark, the genuinely-seeming-to-like-Ewen is just wonderful. I am also glad that Keith can appreciate a kilt when Ewen's wearing one, at least (not to have my slash brain kick into overdrive too much, but...)

That's a good point that Keith is so unbothered by any questions of personal safety! During the incident with the loch it was so completely unaddressed that I didn't actually even really note its absence. He obviously wouldn't want to show any fear to Lachlan & Co., but that being a genuine reflection of his internal state as well is impressive. It does track with what else we've seen. During his capture he was mostly annoyed with the general concept of supposed Highland savagery, rather than worried it might have consequences for his own safety. It also seems to apply to others to a certain extent -- unless I've forgotten it, he doesn't seem to have expressed much concern for the wellbeing of his fellow captured soldiers.

I like that Keith was less surprised by Ewen being exceedingly gentlemanly this time. They're getting to know each other. :D

(And wow, I am acquiring quite the reading list for nonfiction about the period now. Thanks for the historical notes!)

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 06:38 pm (UTC)
friendofthejabberwock: two screencaps: Data and Spock holding cats (Default)
From: [personal profile] friendofthejabberwock
I would find that very useful, thank you!

(And on another book topic, by the way - I recently finished Imre and really loved it! Thank you so much for making the ebook and alerting me to its existence. :D)

Date: Oct. 10th, 2021 07:31 pm (UTC)
friendofthejabberwock: two screencaps: Data and Spock holding cats (Default)
From: [personal profile] friendofthejabberwock
Wonderful, thank you very much!

Date: Oct. 13th, 2021 04:27 am (UTC)
cahn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cahn
Late to the read, but I finally finished Ch 4 today :D Thank you [personal profile] luzula for elucidating all the Jacobite history; that really made it make a lot more sense :D

I'm really enjoying it -- I liked Margaret a lot! (And of course the main two are lovely <3 )

One thing that sort of pinged me was when Ewen was all "Ha ha how funny that Angus never saw Alison as my bride!" Don't spoil me of course, but I feel like this is Ominous Foreshadowing... we shall see!

Date: Oct. 13th, 2021 05:35 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
Yay, welcome! So glad you're enjoying it. : D

Date: Oct. 14th, 2021 03:40 am (UTC)
impala_chick: (Default)
From: [personal profile] impala_chick
Okay I am getting serious soulmate/red string of fate vibes... The narrator keeps pointing out how connected they are, even through Alison and Aunt Margaret's reflections. I also feel like I got a little lost when the women were talking about the political implications and Prince Charles, which makes me want to do a bit of research.

I liked the whole bit about the buttons as a peace offering (and how the women were approached to be the ones to broach the subject) - It makes me think Ewen does not have perfect control over his merry band of misfits and maybe Aunt Margaret is going to do a bit more than just hope and pray. Interesting to contrast Ewen's reaction to the prophecy with Alison's total buy-in/worry over it.

Date: Oct. 18th, 2021 04:26 am (UTC)
impala_chick: (BoB || Webgott)
From: [personal profile] impala_chick
dealing with a serious wartime situation, in contrast to Keith the career soldier
Oh right, I often forget that because Ewen comes off as so mature and put-together from Keith's POV. But I wonder how that dynamic will affect them later on.

Date: Oct. 14th, 2021 08:22 pm (UTC)
hedgebird: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hedgebird
Lachlan's most excitingly unstable moments yet! I think it's interesting how, for all Lachlan's ride-or-die feelings about Ewen, Ewen's values haven't really rubbed off on him? I assume there's a significant difference in education, but also: Lachlan you're a psycho.

Love Angus spacing out in the background, all, "Do I need to intervene here? Nah, Fate'll take care of it."

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