regshoe: A grey heron in flight over water (Heron)
[personal profile] regshoe
I'm afraid real life is being stressful at the moment and I'm feeling a bit frazzled, so no comment from me today—but here's the post, so others can start on the discussion. :)

Next week we'll read chapter 7, the final chapter of Part IV.

Date: Dec. 11th, 2021 07:06 pm (UTC)
killclaudio: Benedick is holding Beatrice back while she struggles with him, on an orange background with crossed swords. (Default)
From: [personal profile] killclaudio
Sorry to hear things are stressful, I hope they improve soon! ♥

That he had personally attracted the English soldier would never have occurred to him. [...] ...this young man, to whom he had been so unusually attracted... What can I even say to this??

This section was great! And I know I say this on every post, but poor Keith! The guy just can't catch a break. My heart sank as Sir Everard started talking, I could sense what was coming... But of course it provides more delicious opportunities for Keith to pick Ewen over his career. :D

The minor characters continue to be a delight - I loved 'the exquisite Captain Ferrers' (who felt like he's come out of a Heyer novel), and Albemarle's reminiscences about Lady Stowe, and Sir Everard Faulkner sounds very cosmopolitan. (The description made me think he might have been a real person, but when I googled I only got results for FotH?)

Now that I've seen more of Captain Greening, I agree with the previous discussion that all the descriptions of him as 'womanish' are very uncomfortable. All the other minor characters have their own reasons for doing what they do, but Greening seems to be more of a plot device to get Ewen to accidentally confess. There's no depth to him, so he just sort of defaults to an unpleasant stereotype.

Speaking of evil minor characters, Major Guthrie! I'll never be able to read the scene where Keith tells him everything again, knowing what destruction he manages to cause with the information. Please tell me someone gets to punch him in the face before the end, I'd find that very cathartic.

I can't wait for Keith and Ewen's meeting next week. But if I've counted right, this will be the last...? Noooo!

Date: Dec. 11th, 2021 08:14 pm (UTC)
friendofthejabberwock: two screencaps: Data and Spock holding cats (Default)
From: [personal profile] friendofthejabberwock
I thought Lord Loudon's behavior was interesting - the way that he seems to take Ewen's word quite easily over Greening's about how the information about Lochiel was obtained surprised me a little, but then he has no problem with trying to pull Ewen into a scheme is not very honorable, either. The information being actually obtained while Ewen was asleep is bad, but pretending it was is not? Okay...

(And ugh, re Greening: there are so many adjective choices to quickly describe the stereotypically nasty character, and yet we get stuck with womanish repeatedly anyway. I realize that's been said a lot already, I just really needed that out of my system, lol. Other than that I really like the writing!)

I love how Keith decides that he will be more prudent with his actions, and then promptly nearly ruins his career all over again (he was more polite the second time around, at least!) It would be out of character for him to do anything else about the issue of his testimony, of course, but I am still very amused.

And I hope you get an IRL break very soon! <3<3

Date: Dec. 11th, 2021 08:58 pm (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
I love how this time around Keith is not blazingly angry and hasn't lost his judgment when he confronts a superior officer on an issue concerning Ewen. I mean, it was definitely very satisfying to see him that way with Lord Loudoun, but it's equally satisfying to see him sacrifice his chances of advancement with full deliberation and knowing exactly what he's doing and what it's costing him. Especially when it has been set up from the beginning that military ambition is what he has left to care about...but then, he has something else to care about now. ♥

And we talked last time about how he still doesn't fully realize his feelings, and once he's removed from Ewen it's all a mystery to him once again. But actually he doesn't completely let go of it this time. Saving Ewen Cameron’s life he did not for an instant regret; he would have done the same again without a moment’s hesitation, nor did he regret his return to the shieling in the guise of the Good Samaritan; but to have dashed in that manner back to Fort Augustus while carrying a despatch, still more to have thrust himself into Lord Loudoun’s presence and almost to have brawled there—was it any wonder that he had found himself under arrest?

He seems to retain a fair amount of his feelings about saving Ewen's life and nursing him at the shieling. But he's all "OMG what was I thinking?" about his behavior with Loudoun. Which, no wonder! He could have achieved more for Ewen if he had kept his head, after all. But then he doesn't write to Ewen--his care for his military career still weighs heavier. Which actually makes it all the more effective when he sacrifices that in the next chapter! And does it without being in Ewen's presence, too.

[personal profile] tgarnsl had a great theory on a previous post about the use of "womanish" to refer to Greening, and that it could reflect Keith's projection of his doubts about his own masculinity when he is so overwhelmed by feeling about Ewen. I very much like this theory, especially because it shows Keith's awareness at some level of the nature of his feelings! Unfortunately it might be somewhat undermined by the fact that Greening is described that way in this week's Ewen chapter, as well. But I think I will choose to interpret it that way anyway! : )

Oops, I mostly commented on Keith's chapter--well, I'll come back to comment on Ewen's tomorrow. I have no research reading written up this week; instead I've been sewing an 18th century men's shirt! : D It's not completely done, but maybe I'll put up some photos tomorrow of what I've got so far.

[personal profile] regshoe: I'm sorry you're feeling stressed! I hope things calm down soon. <3

Date: Dec. 11th, 2021 09:23 pm (UTC)
hyarrowen: (Action Hero)
From: [personal profile] hyarrowen
I love Ewen's remark in Ch V, 'Then our wishes coincide, my Lord, which is gratifying.' Ewen has obviously learned his snark from the best, ie Keith.

Ch VI is the only one in the book which doesn't really work for me, and never has. It's too similar to Ch II. Same location, same dynamics, just ramped up. Oh, well.

The procession of memorable aides-de-camp continues. The exquisite one in Ch VI always makes me smile - she has a way of nailing a minor character without going into endless detail.

Captain Greening being womanish - well, that's unfortunate by the standards of a hundred years later. Either it's a product of her time, or it's internalised misogyny, or, and this is my preferred possibility, he's based on an officer she knew. Most British officers in WW1 were excellent (and their very high casualty rates had consequences in the somewhat humdrum nature of senior officers in WW2) but there would always be bad apples.

Here's hoping things calm down for you, regshoe! Not a great time of year for things to go bad. Thank-you for keeping up with the posting.

Date: Dec. 12th, 2021 05:22 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
I'm sorry things are stressful, [personal profile] regshoe! Thank you for hosting the discussion, and I hope life eases up and you get to come play with us soon!

 

Keith came very close to being "cashiered" after his antics with Loudoun. Possibly everyone here already knows this, but on first read I was under the false impression that cashiering was a bloodless and purely administrative action that would separate him from the army; [personal profile] tgarnsl had to introduce me to the whole ritual/ceremonial aspect of cashiering, the purpose of which was to publicly humiliate and degrade the disgraced officer. Keith didn't just risk his job and social environment for Ewen; he risked his honour, his face, his reputation, and his ability to ever again participate in polite society. (Would Lady Stowe or his stepfather receive him after being cashiered? I have my doubts.)

Consequently, I think there's an interesting parallel here with Ewen. Last week [personal profile] regshoe pointed out that Keith and Ewen met while both "having lost nearly everything that defined them" -- now they're both offered a choice between public and private honour. Loudoun offers Ewen a choice between being dishonourably ejected from Clan Cameron while retaining his own private sense of honour, or sacrificing his private honour toward Lochiel while retaining his public honour with the clan and his chief. Meanwhile, Keith is offered essentially the same choice: be cashiered -- humiliated, degraded, and ejected from his society -- while retaining his private sense of honour toward Ewen, or sacrifice his private honour and advance his standing within the Army. Both men of course choose their private honour over their public honour -- they're a well-matched pair in that! But I am nevertheless amused that the parallelism isn't reciprocal: the object of Ewen's private honour is his clan chief, and the object of Keith's is Ewen. (Does that make Ewen, in Keith's ever-evolving loyalties, Keith's symbolic clan chief?)

(Of course this makes me want fic where Keith is cashiered for Ewen's sake. It also makes me want fic where Loudoun spreads his lies and gets Ewen ejected from Clan Cameron. They do not have to be the same fic.)

I also note that immediately after Culloden, Keith was insistent that his "hands were clean of massacre" -- and in fact, the text was full of how revolted Keith was by what the Army was doing, and while he didn't try to overtly intervene, he did try to keep clear of it. But in these chapters... Well, Broster brushes past it fairly quickly, but Keith is apparently no longer trying to dodge what's expected of him, but is instead making a point of being seen unhesitatingly doing all the things that earlier revolted him. It's unclear exactly how dirty Keith's hands are right now from what he's been doing in Inverness? But I suspect that pre-shieling Keith would have been revolted and possibly even horrified by what Keith has been doing since his narrow escape from cashiering. There's an argument to be made that, in rejecting the alleged duty the Army now expects of him, he feels relief that this will get him ejected from the Army -- at least he'll get to stop doing all the things that are currently revolting him and making him miserable.

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