Flight of the Heron read-along: Part III chapters 1-2

[regshoe]

Charlie chose the place himsel', the graveyard of Culloden...

Well, it looks like Keith's prophecies about the fate of the Jacobites, at least, weren't too inaccurate...

Next week we'll read chapters 3 and 4 of part III.

Comments

[regshoe]

Epigraph notes: The epigraph to Part III is from The Lyon in Mourning, a collection of contemporary accounts of the '45 made by the Jacobite clergyman Robert Forbes. The quoted passage is from a description of the battle of Culloden Moor written by the Reverend Mr George Innes of Forres, sent to Forbes in March 1748, and can be found here, beginning on p. 268.

Anyway, poor Ewen, things are not going well for him in these chapters!

We've skipped over some time and quite a bit of important history since the end of Part II, and once again Broster opens chapter 1 with a summary of what's been happening. But the tone seems very different from the otherwise similar passage in chapter 2.1, with much less of light-hearted humour and more of solemn foreboding—although there are still humorous touches, like the anecdote about the Rout of Moy. I like the interspersing of historical exposition, Ewen's thoughts on developing events and description of his immediate surroundings, chilly and bleak as it all is—the cold wind on the water, Ewen's 'draggled eagle's feathers and soiled cockade'.

Lady Anne Mackintosh, mentioned in the passage about Moy, was a colourful figure, an ardent Jacobite who raised several hundred men to fight for Charles (while her husband, the Laird of Mackintosh, refused to commit himself to either side) and earned herself the nickname Colonel Anne. Lady Ogilvy, who also appears in chapter 1, is another highly memorable Jacobite: amongst other things, she accompanied her husband on the march into England, and at one point stood by a mercat cross where the Jacobites were declaring James as King with a drawn sword in her hand.

As for the rest of chapter 1, I won't say too much—I don't like (the significance of) Alison ('s role in the book/Ewen's life), and I don't like this. I do feel there were missed opportunities for symbolic significance there—it would have been so easy and, I think, thematically appropriate for things to go the other way in that scene where he's trying to persuade her. Nevertheless.

Chapter 2 always feels to me a bit of a chaotic jumble, which is really very appropriate—I definitely get the sense of things spiralling uncontrollably into doom for the Jacobites. The unsuccessful siege of Fort William, Ewen's injury, Glen Nevis House, the retreat, Ewen's visit to Ardroy and the heron, all feel like images flickering rapidly by until we end up, as if drawn into a whirlpool, in the horrible 'nightmare' of Culloden at the end. But there's a lot going on there! Ewen is still thinking about the heron sufficiently to look for it on the island when he's back at Ardroy, and finally finds out about Lachlan's disobedience in the prologue—and yet he still doesn't expect anything more to happen about Keith or the prophecy, and the image whirls away from us with the rest of the chapter. We shall see... I also love Ewen's indignant reply to the lawyer from Maryburgh that 'I am not in the least killed'.

And then we end up at Culloden, where Broster—typically—focusses not on the battle itself but on the events leading up to it. It's once again very historically detailed, and accurate (listening to the song linked above, I recognise several of the details Broster mentions in there too!), and gives a very vivid picture of how incredibly awful the whole thing was, without needing to get into explicit descriptions of exactly what happened after 'the kettledrums of Cumberland’s advance'. Brrr.

It's in these chapters that Ewen's intense loyalty to Lochiel, which we've already heard a bit about, really comes into view properly. If I wasn't so committed to Ewen/Keith I might almost say there was an opportunity for another slash ship there, what with all the throwing himself into cannon fire without a second thought and 'radiant smiles' and 'more deeply moved than he had ever seen him' and constant reminders throughout the chapter about how incredibly, ardently loyal Ewen is and how affected Lochiel is by it. In any case, I very much enjoy some good loyalty, and this is and will continue to be good stuff. I do love how happy Ewen is at hearing about Lochiel's planned hiding-place on Beinn Bhreac.

[osprey_archer]

Laird and Lady Mackintosh must have had some EXTREMELY chilly dinners together. I'm just imagining the two of them glaring daggers at each other down a long table.

I LOVE the part where Ewen flings himself in front of a projectile that isn't even close to hitting Lochiel. The loyalty is SO extra, and the bit where he's just lying on the ground in so much pain that it hurts to breathe, but content because he's been assured that Lochiel isn't hurt... EWEN. EWEN. And poor Lochiel is like "Oh my god if he had died when I WASN'T EVEN IN DANGER how could I ever live with myself."

In general I just love the really intense loyalty that swirls all around Ewen: if he's not flinging himself into danger to protect someone (the Prince, Lochiel), someone else is going above and beyond out of loyalty to Ewen (Lachlan usually).

[regshoe]

I have to quote this account, from Maggie Craig in Damn' Rebel Bitches: The Women of the '45, telling how the Laird of Mackintosh was captured by the Jacobites shortly after the Rout of Moy:

The Prince released him into Anne's custody, saying that he was sure he would receive the most honourable treatment in his wife's care. When he was brought to her Anne greeted him with formal politeness.

'Your servant, Captain,' she said.

Her husband was just as polite and just as brief. 'Your servant, Colonel,' he replied.

Although Craig also claims that Anne was said to be passionately in love with her husband! Hey, two people on opposite sides of the '45 nevertheless passionately in love and treating each other honourably as prisoners, it can happen. :P

The loyalty is SO extra, and the bit where he's just lying on the ground in so much pain that it hurts to breathe, but content because he's been assured that Lochiel isn't hurt... EWEN. EWEN.

:D It's great, isn't it! As Broster points out, Ewen's attitude to Lochiel is much like Lachlan's attitude to Ewen, the chain of feudal loyalty and intense emotions continuing up the social hierarchy. Nf sbe Rjra vafcvevat vagrafr yblnygl va trareny, jr ner tbvat gb frr n ovg zber bs gung sebz fbzrbar ryfr fbba rabhtu... :Q

[hyarrowen]

Hey, two people on opposite sides of the '45 nevertheless passionately in love and treating each other honourably as prisoners, it can happen. :P

LOL!

It was quite common for members of the same family to be on opposing sides, or so I understand. That way the family holdings would remain in the family. It also ensured that the Highlands, or Scotland as a whole, didn't rise as one man to throw out the invader. I think I saw a scene in one of Neil Oliver's (?) programmes on Scotland which showed the Mackintoshes in that light.

[luzula]

It was quite common for members of the same family to be on opposing sides, or so I understand.

Yes, totally. Partly from genuine conflict, such as in the Murrays of Atholl, where the first son was a Jacobite, who was dispossessed by the government in favor of the second who was a Hanoverian, and then the first one returned with BPC to take back his heritage. And then there's the third son who became one of BPC:s military commanders.

But often it was absolutely an insurance strategy. It's unclear to me whether John Cameron of Fassefern stays out of the '45 because he genuinely is against it, or whether it was one of these agreed-upon strategies.

[hyarrowen]

A Cameron of Fassefern ended up getting killed at Quatre-Bras, at Waterloo - dying for a Hanoverian king. But that's what happens when Napoleon comes along.

[regshoe]

Huh! There was a Cameron of Fassefern fighting in the War of American Independence, earlier than that—and he was standing in for a Lochiel who couldn't go due to illness, so I think everyone's loyalties looked a bit different by then.

As for the original John Cameron of Fassefern, I can understand either caution or an insurance strategy for him, seeing what happened to so many of his Jacobite brothers.

[cahn]

I didn't like these chapters as much as I've been enjoying the other ones -- it's still good, but there's no Keith, lol -- but also I feel like Broster does like her tropes, and there's all kinds of tropes spelling impending doom about the whole Alison and Ewen thing, which worries me. (Don't spoil me :) ) As opposed to Culloden, which I do know is impending doom and which I enjoyed more, in a sense, because I do know what's coming. (The kettledrums of Cumberland's advance, as you say! And "the young man for whom the flower of the North stood here to be slain," :(((((( )

I would love to hear more about your issues regarding the significance of Alison's role in the book and in Ewen's life, but... later :)

Ewen and Lochiel is of course lovely, and I'm looking forward to seeing that hiding place :P (With all the caring description given to that cave on the mantel...)

[regshoe]

I agree on the disappointment of the lack of Keith in these chapters!

Agh, yes, Broster has such a lovely way of writing impending doom, with those little phrases at the end of chapter 2.

but... later :)

When we read the Epilogue!

Never fear, that hiding place will return... :D

[philomytha]

For all that I adore all the Ewen/Keith stuff, as a teenager my absolute favourite bit of the entire book was the bit where Ewen throws himself in front of the cannon fragment to protect Lochiel, and comes round to find himself cradled in Lochiel's arms. It is just SO dramatic and perfect, Ewen is so happy to have the chance to die for Lochiel, and the bit where his first reaction is to check that Lochiel's okay... I don't ship it, but I do adore it as the absolute pure form of platonic loyalty kink. And of course it sets up just how happy Ewen would be to die for Lochiel, to give meaning to what happens later on.

[osprey_archer]

That scene is the pure distillation of platonic loyalty kink and it's SO perfect. Throws himself in front of Lochiel and awakens CRADLED IN LOCHIEL'S ARMS.

[sanguinity]

Broster sure as fuck knows the tropes that make fanfic writers' hearts beat, and is gratifyingly free and earnest with using them. :-)

[regshoe]

It's amazing :D Teenage you had excellent taste! Broster certainly does know what makes us fans happy. And yes, of course, this loyalty will be very important later on...

[luzula]

Ugh, the sense of DOOM in these chapters! I mean, it's really built into the history (I've definitely felt it while reading history books about it, too) but Broster makes the most of it. And I think it was a good choice not to include the actual battle. We can imagine it, after that lead-up.

I suppose, in the scene with Alison and Ewen before they get married, that Broster is going for one of her "conflicts of loyalties" themes, with Alison being torn between going to her ill father and staying to marry Ewen. In broad strokes I like it, but I think it might have worked better through Alison's eyes, since she's the one having the conflict. Although I do feel for Ewen, thinking that he may well be going to die soon, as well! But he doesn't want to say so. Also I do wonder why Alison hesitates even before getting the letter? I don't think we're meant to infer it's because she doesn't love him and doesn't want to marry him. My theory, I suppose, is that she doesn't want to admit what Ewen is thinking, namely that Ewen might be about to die as the army is defeated, and they should get what happiness they can, while they can.

This bit is lovely: From the quay Ewen went straight to Lochiel's head-quarters and reported himself for duty. Two hours later his body was marching out of Inverness in the van of the Cameron reinforcements. Where his soul was he hardly knew.

I do also love all the loyalty stuff with Lochiel. This time around I noticed this bit, where Ewen is down at heart because of Alison leaving, and: Lochiel, who knew him well and did observe him closely, gave him as much to do as possible. Awww. I love this indication of Lochiel caring for Ewen. And then later after throwing himself in the way of the splinters, he wakes up in Lochiel's arms--awww. (I can't see Ewen/Lochiel though, it smacks too much of parent/child incest for me, what with Lochiel being such a father figure for Ewen.)

Broster is taking a stand on some controversial topics regarding the battle: whether they should have made a stand at the Spey, which battlefield would have been the best, whether the Franco-Irish officers were competent or not. I note that mostly Duffy does not agree with her on these issues, though I'm sure opinions vary.

[regshoe]

Broster is going for one of her "conflicts of loyalties" themes, with Alison being torn between going to her ill father and staying to marry Ewen.

Oh yes, that's a good point! But, as you say, we don't get to see much of the conflict, and it doesn't make for such compelling tension as other conflicts of loyalty will later on.

I can imagine Alison thinking of the happy, normal, peaceful wedding she thought she was going to have at the start of the book, before BPC turned up, and desperately wanting to believe that it's still possible for her and Ewen to have that, later on when all this is over and they're all fine—whereas marrying in a hurry now is, as you say, tantamount to acknowledging the likelihood that Ewen will be killed and that future will never exist. Fate has overtaken them all, or something...

Aww, yes, Lochiel quietly caring for heartbroken Ewen by 'giving him as much to do as possible', that's lovely.

Good point about Broster's disagreements with Duffy! Although she does at least present the argument against the alternative battlefield across the Nairn. Doubtless the history is complicated and contentious. I suppose Broster's low opinion of the Franco-Irish officers reflects the fact that she's writing from the perspective of Scottish Jacobites who are opposed to them—some of the worst things said about them are in Ewen and Lochiel's dialogue.

[hyarrowen]

I can imagine Alison thinking of the happy, normal, peaceful wedding she thought she was going to have at the start of the book, before BPC turned up, and desperately wanting to believe that it's still possible for her and Ewen to have that

That makes a lot of sense of something that always confused me. But it reminds me of my early reaction to covid - I got rather rules-lawyery, and I think it was my brain trying to assert normality. Silly brain.

[hedgebird]

Broster is taking a stand on some controversial topics regarding the battle: whether they should have made a stand at the Spey, which battlefield would have been the best, whether the Franco-Irish officers were competent or not. I note that mostly Duffy does not agree with her on these issues, though I'm sure opinions vary.

Oh interesting. I'm glad you're flagging these things! It's so easy to take even a novel as authoritative, when you (i.e. I) haven't read any alternative accounts.

[luzula]

I'm away until Wednesday and don't have my books to hand, but if you like I can check and provide some more detail when I get home!

[hedgebird]

Sure! Though no pressure if life gets busy, haha.

[sanguinity]

I was unfamiliar with the history of the Rising (which included being entirely innocent of Culloden) on my first read-through, and I have to say, Broster built the foreboding doom very well: the exhaustion and hunger and demoralization was extremely evocative, and whatever was going to happen after the end of the chapter couldn't possibly be good, that much was clear. However, I'm torn on her choice to entirely skip the battle and its aftermath, even in summary. Perhaps this comment is better left for next week, but I was left floundering in quite a big hole of bewildered ?????? by the time-and-pov skip of the coming chapter. (That said, I acknowledge I was probably never her imagined target audience, so.)

I really liked the chapter with Alison. I love how loving and affectionate their relationship is, and for all Ewen's talk in the Prologue of carrying her off, he's ultra-careful to never let himself be intimidating or cruel with her, however desperately he wants them to be married while they still can. (I'm reminded of that description near the beginning of the Gleam in the North: Like many large, strong men, Ewen Cameron was extraordinarily gentle with creatures that were neither. It's something that I love about Ewen.) I'm glad that they had their two days together here, for courage against everything that's coming. And here is the second time a ring is given as a gift! Gurer ner n ahzore bs fznyy zbzragf guebhtubhg gur abiry jurer Xrvgu vf pnfg cnenyyry gb Nyvfba -- gur bofreingvba gung cebcurpvrf bsgra fubj bar'f fcbhfr, gur jnl Rjra guvaxf bs obgu gur fuvryvat naq uvf jrqqvat avtug nf ubyl, gur jnl vg vf Xrvgu jub raqf hc pneelvat arkg gb uvf urneg gur ybpx bs Rjra'f unve zrnag sbe Nyvfba -- naq V guvax guvf tvsg bs n evat nf n jrqqvat cerfrag vf cneg bs gung frevrf jurer Xrvgu'f fvtavsvpnapr vf yvxrarq gb Nyvfba'f.

As for Ewen almost blowing himself up for love of Lochiel, and Lochiel's grief over Ewen nearly having done so, and also the various MacLarens' similar devotion to Ewen caught in glimpses throughout these two chapters... Ewen is so unlike Keith in this respect: he is deeply embedded in a wide circle of people who love deeply, devotedly, and unreservedly. Loving is a thing that you do as a part of living, as natural and necessary as breathing air, and is deeply entangled with duty and honour and loyalty, inseparable from any of them. It is such a marked contrast to Keith's emotional isolation, and I think that contrast is fundamental to several things that are coming.

And I have to say, Lachlan's perversity is growing on me, this read-through. He does what he wants (but only out of devotion to Ewen, of course!), and whenever Ewen tries to rein him in, Lachlan immediately goes for extreme overreaction and threatens suicide, thereby ensuring that he can continue to do what he wants. It's 100% clear that Ewen hasn't the least idea how to manage him. Lrf, V'z jryy njner guvf jvyy nyy raq va grnef, ohg sbe gur zbzrag, uvf novyvgl gb pbzcyrgryl syhzzbk Rjra znxrf zr ynhtu.

[osprey_archer]

Yes, I love that Ewen is so gentle in how he uses his strength. And I think that fits in with the pattern you mention where Ewen's relationship with Keith parallels & echoes his relationship with Alison: when Keith is his prisoner (even though he's a rather troublesome prisoner!) Ewen is always gentle and courteous to him, never using his strength to intimidate, just as he is gentle with Alison here when he's asking her to hurry up their wedding.

And yes on the contrast between Ewen's loving circle of friends and family versus Keith's emotional isolation! And that ties into the fact that Ewen is more open than Keith (generally speaking; as we saw last week, he can lie quite well when he needs to!): unlike Keith, he doesn't feel the need to be on guard all the time.

How DO you solve a problem like Lachlan? Clearly the problem is quite beyond poor Ewen!

[luzula]

I like sanguinity's point about the parallels between Keith and Alison, and I like the way you add to them, as well: that's a good point about Ewen's gentleness both with Keith and with Alison. Gentleness in the sense of being a gentleman. : )

Although we do see him spoiling for a fight as well, both in Edinburgh and during the war! But of course that's within a context where it's honourable for him to use force.

[osprey_archer]

Ewen really embodies the ideal of the 18th century gentlemen. Gentle and courteous to ladies and guests (and imprisoned officers count as guests), but ready and willing and indeed eager to fight in the right circumstances!

It's an interesting contrast to Keith, who is also an honorable gentleman, but hides it somewhat under a screen of irony and cynicism (although I don't think Keith is as cynical as he likes to think he is). Underneath they're alike, but they present differently on the outside and it makes them a bit of a puzzle to each other.

[regshoe]

I don't know how much Broster's original target audience in 1925 could be assumed to know about the '45—I suppose it is long enough ago that it was substantially less far back in history when she was writing than it is for us now! It's a trade-off, I suppose—if the reader is familiar with Culloden, I think not describing it explicitly and letting the significant silence stand on its own is very effective (the general writing technique of writing around horrible things that the audience can be expected to know/infer is something I admire a lot when done well)—but if they're not, the author does risk being confusing.

That's a very insightful comment about the parallels between Keith and Alison—I've noticed some of those details, but I like your way of linking them together. And I think—hmm, going off on a tangent here, spoilers for The Wounded Name and "Mr Rowl" as well as FotH in the rot13:

Oebfgre unf ol abj jevggra guerr obbxf jvgu obgu na vqrnyvfrq urg pbhcyr jub trg n ebznagvp unccl raqvat naq shyy nhgubevny nccebiny, naq n fhogrkghny z/z eryngvbafuvc, naq fur frrzf njner guebhtubhg gung gurfr ner va pbasyvpg, ohg va gur svefg gjb obbxf fur qbrfa'g ernyyl erfbyir vg. Ynherag vf unccl sbe Nlzne naq Niblr, naq jvfgshyyl ohg jvyyvatyl fnpevsvprf uvf bja qrfverf juvyr gurl trg gurve unccl raqvat; Ureirl Oneevatgba fbeg bs vapbapyhfviryl snqrf njnl ng gur raq bs "Ze Ebjy" jvgubhg uvf eryngvbafuvc jvgu Enbhy ernyyl erfbyivat vagb nalguvat. V guvax va Syvtug bs gur Ureba Oebfgre svanyyl npxabjyrqtrf gur vapbzcngvovyvgl naq gnxrf vg gb vgf ybtvpny, gentvp pbapyhfvba va xvyyvat bss Xrvgu rira nf uvf npgvbaf ranoyr Rjra naq Nyvfba'f unccl raqvat. Naq V ernyyl yvxr gur vqrn gung fur qbrf gung ol znxvat Xrvgu na rkcyvpvg grkghny cnenyyry gb Nyvfba—cerfreivat fbzr bs gur fvtavsvpnapr nzvqfg gentrql, be fbzrguvat.

...but that's for my comment on the epilogue! :D

Ewen is so unlike Keith in this respect: he is deeply embedded in a wide circle of people who love deeply, devotedly, and unreservedly.

Very true, and I especially like your observation about love and honour—while honour and duty are important to both Keith and Ewen, for Ewen they go along with love while for Keith they replace them, or at least he tries to make them. That's a central part of what makes their relationship (as it is on the page, and for slash potential) so very interesting and good.

[greerwatson]

"I don't know how much Broster's original target audience in 1925 could be assumed to know about the '45"

My impression is that, through the first half of the twentieth century, it's not so much that people necessarily remembered all the details of the actual history, even if they learned them at school, so much as that they became entranced in childhood with the myth of the Jacobite Rebellion.

Tales of Bonnie Prince Charlie (like knights in shining armour, Mary Queen of Scots, and gallant Royalists vs wicked Roundheads) were mainstays in romantical children's historical fiction, at least in Britain. This means that, to contemporary readers, Culloden would indeed be a familiar battle, at least by name, along with the exciting story of the Prince's escape afterwards.

[sanguinity]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. The only place I'd ever heard of the Rising before this was in Stevenson's Kidnapped, which I presume is an example of the kind of thing you're talking about.

I was assuming that history education of a century and more back used to put more emphasis on "dates of famous battles" than mine did -- and of course that a British education covers the history of the English and Scottish thrones, which an American education does not at all. But yes, if it was part of the cultural osmosis of a British childhood, then she wouldn't need to summarize it at all.

[luzula]

I remember the first time I came across Jacobites I mixed them up with Jacobins. *g* Not at all the same thing!

[sanguinity]

Heh. At the beginning of this read-along I sat down and made myself learn the terms Jacobean, Jacobite, and Jacobin. If I ever go to a party again, distinguishing the three can be my dumb party trick that will make all but one person go away to talk to other people, and that remaining one person will either become my best friend for the rest of the night or will be the person I spend the rest of the party desperately trying to escape.

[regshoe]

Hehe, those three are always good to try and sort out! I suppose Jacobeans and Jacobites relate to the same set of Jameses/Jacobuses, at least.

[luzula]

I was left floundering in quite a big hole of bewildered ?????? by the time-and-pov skip of the coming chapter.

I didn't know the history beforehand, either, but I can't remember being confused? I think I just assumed they lost the battle. But then, I was reading mostly for the Keith/Ewen and probably accepted not understanding everything. I do think that Broster, in 1925, assumed everyone would know the history.

Ewen is so unlike Keith in this respect: he is deeply embedded in a wide circle of people who love deeply, devotedly, and unreservedly. Loving is a thing that you do as a part of living, as natural and necessary as breathing air, and is deeply entangled with duty and honour and loyalty, inseparable from any of them.

I have definitely noticed this as well, but you put it beautifully. ♥

Re: Lachlan, it's worth noting that despite all his theatrical threats, ng gur raq, ur qbrfa'g whfg guerngra fhvpvqr ohg nofbyhgryl sbyybjf guebhtu ba vg. But yeah, he's a difficult character. He and Ewen are not just a laird and his gillie, they're like siblings as well, which complicates things. Sibling relationships can have so much baggage to them. I think I've tended to "smooth out" those difficulties a bit while writing fic, partly because I feel bad for him--he's the character whose loyalty gets the least reward, difficult though he is.

No one has so far written the fic where Ewen ends up in a relationship with Keith, and Lachlan finds out. OMG, the trainwreck. I think Lachlan would be incredibly upset and jealous, not least because Keith, unlike Alison, has no proper role in Ewen's life--Keith isn't part of the network of clan connections in which Ewen is embedded. Of course, it's difficult for Lachlan not to notice how important Keith is to Ewen anyway, but he doesn't have to fully face it, if he doesn't know the full extent of it.

[luzula]

Also re: Ewen and Keith's relationships to love, Ewen is actually even more of an orphan than Keith is! Both his parents died when he was young, but with the network of extended family and foster-family, he grows up well loved. While Keith, with his mother still alive, does not...

[sanguinity]

Rot13: Yeah. I have a lot of complicated feelings about Lachlan, howsoever I may laugh now.

Lachlan finding out: OMG. I mean, obvs a lot will depend on where/how/when the divergence happens, but... Yeah, "upset and jealous" only begins to describe it. And that's an excellent observation about Keith having no place in the social structure of Ewen's life, and how threatening Lachlan might well find that.

Ewen, Keith, and love: Yes, it's very paradoxical! I have to say I was so happy Ewen and Masters got to meet in Gleam in the North: V qnerfnl gung gurl obgu sbhaq vg n pbzsbeg gb gurve tevrs gung fbzrbar ybirq Xrvgu qhevat gur bgure raq bs uvf yvsr.

[regshoe]

Good thoughts about Ewen's relationship with Lachlan and the difficulties it presents. It is a strange social dynamic, where Ewen is Lachlan's social superior and commands his loyalty etc., but they were also raised as siblings, and so there's that personal aspect to their relationship. I wonder sometimes what Ewen's relationship with Neil is like—Neil is described as also very loyal, but we don't see the sort of intense obsession we get with Lachlan. How much of that is just who Lachlan is an an individual and his particular relationship with Ewen?

No one has so far written the fic where Ewen ends up in a relationship with Keith, and Lachlan finds out.

I had some vague thoughts in that direction a while ago, but never got to the point of figuring out exactly how it would happen. I very much like your thoughts here! Yes, of course, Keith not having a 'proper' role, and in a much broader sense than the general non-approval of relationships between men, would be very important to Lachlan. Ooh, I want to read this fic now. :D

[hyarrowen]

No one has so far written the fic where Ewen ends up in a relationship with Keith, and Lachlan finds out. OMG, the trainwreck.

One of us at least has imagined it but chickened out of writing it. I don't think I can put such drama into words!

[hyarrowen]

...HTML fail, sorry.

[luzula]

I can quite understand that!

[osprey_archer]

Oh my God, if Lachlan found out his reaction would LIGHT THE SKY ON FIRE. The RAGE. The jealousy! Not sexual jealousy, but platonic jealousy can be just as intense, especially given the sibling aspect of their relationship. Lachlan is Ewen's FOSTER BROTHER and he would DIE FOR HIM and instead Ewen is turning to this INCUBUS OF AN INTERLOPER who has clearly SEDUCED him into an improper relationship!!!! Lachlan must break it up. FOR EWEN'S OWN GOOD.

[luzula]

Ha, great summary! I'm almost afraid to consider how he might try to break it up. Clearly if Ewen is not open to persuasion, Lachlan needs to either discredit Keith in Ewen's eyes, or he needs to make sure something befalls Keith that Ewen can't trace back to Lachlan...ack, this could get dark.

[osprey_archer]

Yes, I think the difficulty with any story where Lachlan Finds Out is that Lachlan's attempts to break it up, possibly by killing Keith just like that heron, would take over the whole entire story.

Although... would Ewen be open to persuasion? Probably not from Lachlan, but if Lachlan went to, say, Lochiel...

[luzula]

Although... would Ewen be open to persuasion? Probably not from Lachlan, but if Lachlan went to, say, Lochiel...

OMG. Ewen's loyalty to Lochiel pitted against his love for Keith when they're already in a relationship! Poor Ewen, how torn he would be...

[osprey_archer]

A classic Broster conflict-of-loyalties plot!

[regshoe]

would Ewen be open to persuasion? Probably not from Lachlan, but if Lachlan went to, say, Lochiel...

Aaargh, that is a good idea! I suppose Lochiel wouldn't necessarily agree with Lachlan entirely (I'm sure he'd be less dramatic about it), but he might have his own views on things—and that could be a really good way to bring in the contrast between Ewen's established network of loyalties, as represented by Lochiel, and Keith as an element not fitting into that, as luzula pointed out above. Hmmm...

[osprey_archer]

I'm sure Lochiel takes Lachlan's furious account with several grains of salt, but nonetheless he figures he had better have a long serious chat with Ewen to figure out exactly what IS going on... and is perhaps dismayed to discover just how far Ewen has gotten entangled with this English officer. And Ewen of course is DEEPLY distressed by Lochiel's dismay.

[luzula]

I hope someone writes this! : D I have enough writing projects already...

[hyarrowen]

What springs out at me most in these two chapters is how messy real history can be, as opposed to fiction. All that marching and counter-marching is just so bitty. Compare that to the strong narrative drive of the prophecy and it's easy to see why people prefer reading a novel about the '45, whether it's FotH, Outlander or any number of bodice-rippers, to reading about the real thing.

I can quite understand why DKB didn't want to write about the battle. She'd served on the Western Front, after all, as did many of her readers.

As for Ewen and Alison's relationship, I generally like it in canon, though I'm not so sure about the prevaricating and putting-off and issuing of orders that we get here. Try doing that sort of thing to Keith, Ewen, and see what you get!

[regshoe]

The history of the '45 does seem to have lent itself especially well to fictionalised accounts with a strong sense of narrative, from Lady Nairn's songs onwards, however messy and complicated the real history was. Though I like how Broster manages to use some of that mess of real history to add to the sense of doom in the story here!

[hedgebird]

V'ir arire xabja dhvgr jung gb guvax bs Nyvfba orvat hfurerq bss-fgntr ng guvf cbvag. Fur'f gur guveq znva punenpgre, ohg V fhccbfr gur znva pbasyvpg va ure fgbelyvar/eryngvbafuvc jvgu Rjra vf "pvephzfgnaprf qrynl bhe jrqqvat" naq nsgre gung'f erzbirq, nccneragyl gurer'f ab zber cybg sbe ure. And then on the other hand, the relationship that the novel is structured around, Ewen & Keith, is full of built-in conflict. IDK what I'm trying to say here except that I guess Broster had widely distinct tastes in Official Couple and Platonic Smarm relationships.

On a completely different note, I like a good battle scene and have always felt a bit cheated not getting them! The failed night raid is interesting too, though.

[luzula]

IDK what I'm trying to say here except that I guess Broster had widely distinct tastes in Official Couple and Platonic Smarm relationships.

Broster does have an Official Het Couple in Sir Isumbras at the Ford which gets the built-in conflict that Ewen/Keith has here. Very satisfying, though the conflict is resolved quicker than for Ewen and Keith. OTOH, there's also the slashy couple Laurent and Aymar in The Wounded Name which is entirely composed of loyalty kink and hurt/comfort and doesn't have any external conflict, or at least, the conflict that exists is that Aymar doesn't want to tell Laurent his secret, and Laurent trusts against all odds that despite appearances, his secret is nothing dishonourable. So it's not quite as clearcut as that!

Re: Alison's disappearance, I have a fic planned where Ewen and Alison get married in Edinburgh instead and Alison then follows the army as several Jacobite wives did. And then she's involved in the events that follow, and there is eventual Alison/Ewen/Keith.

On a completely different note, I like a good battle scene and have always felt a bit cheated not getting them!

Heh. I never expected to get so much into the military history, but it is fascinating!

[sanguinity]

Oh, that's a lovely fic idea! I hope someday it becomes a thing we get to read!

[luzula]

Well, it will take some time! But I already explored Ewen/Keith + Ewen/Alison at some length (140K, ha ha), so it will be interesting to explore the triad possibility as well.

[hedgebird]

Then I suppose we can only say she liked both internal and external relationship conflicts, regardless of the precise nature of the relationships! And evidently didn't feel she needed to match the length of the two story arcs, slightly odd though it feels to me.

That should be an interesting fic!

[regshoe]

Your point about not matching the length has me thinking about "Mr Rowl", which I've just finished a re-read of. There the smarm-y m/m relationship isn't even introduced until halfway through the book, but when it is there's an awesome conflict of duty and loyalties over it. Meanwhile the romance has some conflict caused by things always going wrong with Juliana's attempts to save Raoul, which continues all the way through the book, though it isn't always the focus.

Yeah, I don't think there are any general points here! Other than that I think Broster likes Honour and Loyalty etc. more than any particular types of conflict or anything else. :D

[sanguinity]

Alison: V guvax ure ebyr va gur abiry vf fgebatyl Qblyvfg, va gung nyy guebhtu gurfr svefg cnegf jura Rjra vf qvfzvffvir bs gur cebcurpl, fur'f Oebfgre'f gbby sbe xrrcvat vg ba gur cntr: fur'f vavgvnyyl gur bar orvat gbyq nobhg vg nal qrgnvy, fur'f gur bayl cbi punenpgre jbeelvat nobhg vg, naq fur'f gur bar oevatvat vg hc sbe qvfphffvba nf vg fgnegf gb or shysvyyrq. Nsgre gur fuvryvat, Rjra fgnegf gb perqvg gur cebcurpl uvzfrys, naq guhf ur naq Xrvgu pna cresbez nyy gubfr ebyrf orgjrra gurz, naq fur'f abg arrqrq gb xrrc vg ba gur cntr nalzber.

Fur'f nyfb hfrq va n flzobyvp jnl, nf n ersrerapr cbvag sbe yvxravat ure naq Xrvgu'f eryngvbafuvcf gb Rjra. Ohg gung qbrfa'g fb zhpu erdhver ure gb or ba-fgntr, bayl gung fur rkvfg. Fb lrnu, V guvax hfurevat ure bss-fgntr ng guvf cbvag vf n znggre bs ure univat freirq ure Qblyvfg checbfr va gur aneengvir.

[hedgebird]

Ohhh those are really good points. It also occurred to me after my first comment that the wedding allows for Nyvfba'f rkcbfvgvba nobhg Rjra fyrrc gnyxvat, gubhtu bs pbhefr gurer ner bgure punenpgref jub pbhyq unir vagebqhprq gung.

[sanguinity]

Yes, that too! Although I think Keith observed it firsthand in part one, when Ewen rolled himself up to sleep in his wet plaid? But given how important that is about to become, it's an excellent time for Broster to drop a reminder...

[luzula]

Although I think Keith observed it firsthand in part one, when Ewen rolled himself up to sleep in his wet plaid?

Not in canon, but regshoe wrote a fic where he did! : )

[regshoe]

I guess Broster had widely distinct tastes in Official Couple and Platonic Smarm relationships.

She certainly did, heh—it's a distinctive feature of several of her books. Although I second luzula's recommendation of something a bit different in Sir Isumbras at the Ford, which I love.

[tgarnsl]

Hello, hello! I'm very late to the party (and to this week's reading), so I should probably introduce myself a bit. Name's Tgarnsl (after the proper pronunciation of 'topgallantsail') and I fell into this fandom a few weeks back when I came across it on AO3, whereupon I promptly went 'oh, looks like there are some fun evening reads in this tag, I should read the last chapter of the book to get to grips with the characters so I don't have to read the whole novel.' Which resulted in reading the final chapter, wondering who the hell this Keith character was, and going back to the first chapter so I could read the book properly. And here I am, several weeks later, alarmingly invested in this novel and its characters.

I wanted to comment on last week's chapters, as those are set in Edinburgh, and as someone who lived in the city centre for several years (and visited this summer) I enjoyed reading about the places I know quite well. Nonetheless, I enjoyed this week's chapters: the conflict between Ewen and Alison and their respective duties and loyalties is interesting, even if I would have preferred to have read it through Alison's POV. I get the sense that they're both aware of what's coming, even if neither of them want to openly acknowledge it, but their reactions to it are quite different. I find it interesting how Broster carefully sets up Alison's eagerness to get married in the early part of the book and then has her feel so conflicted about it here — it's clear she still wishes to get married, but the state of the war is clearly taking its toll on her. I can't help but wonder if her reluctance is, at least in part, based in the fear of becoming a widow so soon after marriage. Ewen, in contrast, seems to have the complete opposite view: that any time married is precious, and that they should seize life with both hands while they have it. I find the scenes of their brief married life quite sweet; one thing I really like about their pairing is that there is the real sense that they are partners in all senses of the world — they both love and respect the other tremendously, and it seems that there's an easy companionship to their marriage that makes their ensuing heartbreak over their parting all the more understandable.

I found Chapter 2 quite gloomy, as you might expect. Broster makes it clear that this isn't going to end well, and by now most of the characters recognise it too, even if they do not acknowledge it. Ewen, for his part, seems to be dissociating from everything around him, in part due to his parting from Alison, in part due to the sorry state of the war. I find it interesting how Ewen's loyalty seems to shift in this chapter, away from the Prince and towards Lochiel — he will always be loyal to the Prince, but Lochiel is his family, and his concern for the aftermath of Culloden is not so much what will happen to the Prince, but what will happen to Lochiel. The last paragraph or so of the chapter is terribly poignant in its imagery. I don't ever feel that Broster is ever in danger of purple prose, even though her writing is descriptive and lush. It's a talent I quite admire.

I did enjoy the brief mention of Keith when Ewen is at Ardroy. It was a good way to subtly remind the reader where the story is headed, that even though this particular chapter of the Jacobite Uprising is swiftly drawing to a close, there is still plenty of story left.

[luzula]

Hi and welcome to the fandom! : D

Oh, naval terms...I've been recording an audiobook with a few naval terms in it, and they're always shortened, and never in quite the way you expect.

And here I am, several weeks later, alarmingly invested in this novel and its characters.

Ha ha, I recognize this! That first reading experience was something.

I can't help but wonder if her reluctance is, at least in part, based in the fear of becoming a widow so soon after marriage. Ewen, in contrast, seems to have the complete opposite view: that any time married is precious, and that they should seize life with both hands while they have it.

Yes, I think you're right, and that this explains the conflict, such as it is, about whether to get married right away. I do like Alison a lot, but by now I feel like the Alison in my head is half my own character, since I wrote a longfic where she had a lot of POV (more than in canon).

I did enjoy the brief mention of Keith when Ewen is at Ardroy. It was a good way to subtly remind the reader where the story is headed, that even though this particular chapter of the Jacobite Uprising is swiftly drawing to a close, there is still plenty of story left.

Yes! We're only halfway through the story, really. So much slashy goodness left.

[tgarnsl]

Hello!

I've been recording an audiobook with a few naval terms in it, and they're always shortened, and never in quite the way you expect. — Yes, it's a bit like Gaelic in that you have to alter your understanding of how phonetic pronunciation works. I'm sure that there's some underlying rule, but I have yet to work it out.

I agree that it's hard to tell where one's own interpretation of character ends and the author's begins — I'm in the midst of writing some fics right now and am still working out Alison's voice and motivations, but I do feel that she is given a little more agency than other standard love interests of the era.

So much slashy goodness left. Oh, is there ever. I'm currently working on a story that slightly alters the events of the final three meetings and every time I look at the book I marvel at the fact that for every single event Broster went as far as she did, which I very much look forward to rereading in the upcoming weeks :-)

[luzula]

Yay fic! \o/ Looking forward to it, and let me know if you want a beta reader. : )

[tgarnsl]

Thank you! At this point it's looking like a serious longfic, so it might be a while.

[luzula]

Even better, then. : )

[regshoe]

Ooh, you're writing fic, how exciting :D

[regshoe]

Welcome, nice to meet you :) And I'm glad you're enjoying the book and the fic—hehe, this novel certainly does get the emotions...

Oh, it's good that you enjoyed the Edinburgh chapters when you've lived there!

Yes, Lochiel is definitely the centre of Ewen's loyalties here. Broster describes Ewen's Jacobitism as being as natural to him as breathing, and he's devoted to Charles's cause as a matter of course, but his loyalty to Lochiel is more personal and more immediately emotional.

Broster's descriptive writing is utterly lovely always—it's one of my favourite things about the book—and the sense of awful impending doom at the end of chapter 2, with those perfectly chosen images, is an especially good bit.

there is still plenty of story left.

Ahaha, there certainly is...!

[tgarnsl]

Lochiel wasn't known as 'Gentle Lochiel' for nothing. I like his relationship with Ewen, the unspoken father-son dynamic of it, and the way that Lochiel's personality seems to have shaped Ewen's own. I was listening to the In Our Time episode on the Jacobite Rebellion and found it interesting just how important Lochiel's decision to join the uprising really was.

I look forward to what comes next!

[regshoe]

I remember reading in one of my history books about the importance of Lochiel deciding to join the rising (and how nearly he didn't, which I thought was an interesting contrast to Ewen's ardour). Like all the history, Broster's portrayal of him seems to be both accurate historically and interesting fictionally!

Ah, I've found the In Our Time episode, I might give that a listen—is it good?

[tgarnsl]

In Our Time is always good for giving an overview of something, and I think it does a good job at that. I'm not sure there's a huge amount in the episode that you might not already know, but I always find them enjoyable listens at any rate.

[hyarrowen]

Hello there!

This is something that hadn't occurred to me before: I can't help but wonder if her reluctance is, at least in part, based in the fear of becoming a widow so soon after marriage. Ewen, in contrast, seems to have the complete opposite view: that any time married is precious, and that they should seize life with both hands while they have it.

Ewen isn't the one who risks finding himself pregnant and alone, after all. If Ardroy is lost, Alison will be on her own in France, with a sick father, a brother in captivity and no-one to support her. It's very like the situation in Persuasion in which Wentworth's job is so dangerous that he's not a good marriage prospect. She's taking a real risk which Ewen, and up till now, I, didn't see.

[regshoe]

Oh, good point! That's very true.

...Actually, to go off on a tangent, this touches on something I was idly thinking about for a possible fic the other day: if Ewen was killed, at Culloden or afterwards as a prisoner, who would inherit Ardroy? Without an obvious heir it's possible he's done the 'safety signing-over to a sympathetic Whig friend' thing some historical Jacobites did (and which he does to Keith in one of luzula's fics!), but we don't hear anything about it. Other than that his closest relatives are Aunt Margaret and the Stewarts of Invernacree, and I don't know how it might work out given the laws of the time and the possibility of forfeiture.

[hyarrowen]

With most of the Camerons "out" it might even be Fassefern, as the designated neutral in the family. Aunt Margaret would, of course, do the best job of them all, but as a mere female...

[luzula]

We don't actually know if Ewen owns Ardroy, or is renting it from Lochiel. This is quite complicated.

Clans could be proprietory or non-proprietory, depending on if their "oighreachd" and "duthchas" were aligned or not. In the first case, the chief owned their lands, and the clansmen paid both rent and calps (basically, protection money) to him. In the second, the chief only leased the land which someone else (often a Lowland nobleman, or another clan chief) owned, and the rents and calps went to different places. This was often the cause of feuds, because clans strove to align oighreachd and duthchas. There used to be a feud between the Camerons and Macintoshes because the latter owned much of the Cameron lands in Lochaber, which was resolved by arbitration in 1665 where Ewen Cameron of Lochiel basically bought out the Macintoshes, so their oighreachd and duthchas were now aligned. BUT he had to borrow the money from this from the Campbells, who also led the arbitration, because the land was within their heritable jurisdiction (another complication, which the Campbells seem to have used very shrewdly!) In return Lochiel had to concede that he held the lands within the feudal superiority of the House of Argyll. I'm not sure what exactly is the difference and how that was better, but...

So anyway, this also reproduced down the chain. If Ewen owns Ardroy outright, the situation is different from if he's renting the land from Lochiel. And Ardroy's tenants are of course renting from Ewen. There are all sorts of complicated terms for the leases for rents, I don't understand them all.

So if Ewen is renting it, I guess Lochiel just finds another tenant. But in fact over time, the clan chiefs sold off more and more land to their chieftains and tacksmen, because they needed the money. In my fics I've assumed that he owns it. In that case, I guess it goes to the nearest male relative. Ewen's father's brother and his sons, if they exist? Otherwise, I guess you look at Ewen's grandfather's brothers and their sons, etc? Or maybe Lochiel gets to have a say.

(All this stuff is from the book Clanship, Commerce and the House of Stuart, 1603-1788 by Allan I. Macinnes (1996), by the way.)

ETA: In fact the "signing over of estates" thing which went on all the time suggests that they didn't have entails? Because in that case they wouldn't have been free to sign away their estates from their sons...

[regshoe]

Oh wow, thank you for all this information—fascinating stuff, and I did not know it was this complicated! I think we're supposed to understand that Ewen owns Ardroy outright ('Ewen... had ruled his little domain'; 'Mr Cameron was apparently a landed proprietor', though that second one could easily by Keith's misinterpretation), but you're right that it's not clear. (This isn't really a side of the historical detail that Broster gets into much!).

[hyarrowen]

Ewen... had ruled his little domain

Oooh, nice catch! I'd always just assumed it was his outright, but that was mostly due to English-centric views of inheritance which are unwarranted. But that phrase points to it being the case.

[luzula]

I think that phrasing tells us nothing of whether he owned or rented--he would have "ruled" it in the clanship sense in any case.

[hyarrowen]

Yes indeed - that was just the way I took it. This is one of the great things about this read-along - pre-conceived ideas get challenged!

[luzula]

Actually, from Ewen's POV it would in some sense be good if Alison was pregnant, if he's going to die! Because then he would have an heir (well, at least if it was a boy). I'm sure Alison is brought up to see this as an important charge, as well, though if she's having second thoughts, this would be the moment to break it off. But she wouldn't be alone--she could return to Ardroy before giving birth and have the support of Aunt Margaret, and manage Ardroy until her son (if it was a son) came of age. If it was a daughter, we're in a different situation, of course, and that's a gamble! (Heh, this is the patriarchy in a very literal sense...)

This is almost the same situation that Ewen's parents were in after the '19...Ewen's father fled the country when Ewen was only three days old, leaving his wife and son, and no one knew if he would ever return, and in fact he doesn't.

But yeah, I do think Alison and Ewen do have differing fears and hopes in that moment. One fears having something and then losing it, and the other fears never having had it...

[hyarrowen]

Actually, from Ewen's POV it would in some sense be good if Alison was pregnant, if he's going to die! Because then he would have an heir (well, at least if it was a boy). I'm sure Alison is brought up to see this as an important charge

Well, quite so! He'd have his ~legacy~. But from a woman's pov, having a child in wartime is always a big gamble, hence the baby boomers. If there were repercussions including attacks on homes, she'd be in real serious trouble.

[luzula]

Hmm. But regardless of whether there was a child, their marriage contract might well give her financial/material resources as a widow that she didn't have before. I researched the situation for widows in France when I wrote my poly fic, and they were not left with nothing! The situation varied in different parts of France, but they could in some cases be left with a fair portion of their husband's estate.

*determines to research the inheritance situation of widows in Scotland*

But yeah, obviously a pregnancy would be a risk!